Picard if Im limited to NCC-1701. congrats. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. At rest, cocked, it may very well have enough oomph to set some primers off. Before the madness SIGS were expensive. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. Who knows. Second, every gun maker has made lemons in the past. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. While good firearms training and practices among law enforcement officers is certainly the case much of the time, weve seen far too many instances over the years of un-safe or downright dangerous practices by allegedly highly trained individuals to apply that kind of blanket endorsement to all cops or alphabet agency employees. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. The Glock fails on both counts. Theres also an un-named Texas gun shop manager who says a P320 fired as he cleared the weapon, blowing off one of his fingers. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. The pictures on the internet were enough to scare the shit out of you especially his wound in the thigh. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. in Capitalvania. is the manual safety a kit you add? So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. And the idea some random comment section P320 hater thinks theyre smarter & more knowledgeable than the Army, Navy, Airforce, Coast Guard and Marine Corp combined regarding military pistol selection is just freaking laughable! First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. Milwaukee Police Report Issues With Sig P320's Discharging By Tom Knighton | 11:30 AM on October 30, 2021 AP Photo/Charles Rex Arbogast Several years ago, there was an issue discovered with the. Its interesting that ABC chose to leave that point out of one of their reports. Thread starter ut755ln; Start date Oct 19, 2022; Forums. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Thats why NY demanded the NY Trigger be installed on Glocks before theyd buy them. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). So, unlike the Serpa holster debate, Im a believer that there is more going on than meets the eye with the P320 and is exactly why I refrained from buying one, why I still wont own one, and why I steer people away from it. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. Note also that ABC didnt provide any context for the number of suits filed against SIG. Kyle . Where is this lightning striking twice? Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. After watching a friend get killed by a Remington 700 by another friend and the ensuing fallout 31 years ago I decided that I didnt care if the P320 was fixed, it was getting sold. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. The drop-bang thing only happened at a very narrow event window, it was only once the Internet doom-preachers figured out that narrow window and did it over and over online did it appear to be a thing. Sig adapted and changed the pistol sufficiently to prevent even that issue. . Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. If its not legal momentum, it would have to be some other mechanism of failure.. The new guy sucks. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. This is the goal of those who would disarm us at the Post Office, as we take little Yevgeniy or little Shaquina to school, as we fulfill our civic responsibilities as jurors to judge our peers, as we travel to and through less free jurisdictions. Its not happening on your person without some catastrophic event. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Still waiting. I dont own a P320. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. 1:07. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. Unless they have to fire their weapon in an on-duty incident most officers only fire their weapons just before and/or at qualifications, which depending on the department are annual or semi-annual. Excellent work. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! Bravo. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. 00:03. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? As they should. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. Is there any major military anywhere that ever issued one of their guns? Mine is very accurate. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. Plastic crap! Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. In a world of "innovative" guns, this truly is an innovated design and a step in the right direction for the future of pistols. Too much MIM in that crap SIG, the old ones were great. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. The cost of settlements will be passed on to us. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. SIG just cannot seem to make a striker fired pistol that doesnt have issues. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. 3. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. (unless theyre SWAT or something). That is the point of most of the video at the end of the article. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. Because its flat out bull**it. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. I am still waiting for the UPS man (not from the devil but from Sig) I will not hold my breath. It offers the quality and reliability of Sig Sauer, with a tried and true striker system and ingenious features that make it a novel gun. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. Then either the gun somehow managed to magically clear both the broken tab and foreign body to continue to operate. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Canadian soldier. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. Yes, a lot of police officers only shoot when they have to for qual. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. Have you ever noticed that big trouble usually comes in groups of 3. Yaaay! Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. The Hide Armory. PDs are dropping them from contracts. It seems safe to assume that while SIG is coming up fast on the outside, GLOCK is still most likely the reigning champ in terms of the firearms most often carried by law enforcement and other government agencies. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. . These officers are not gunfighters. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . (a) A person commits an offense if the person recklessly discharges a firearm inside the corporate limits of a municipality having a population of 100,000 or more. If you can make the trigger move backwards, all bets are off. So I will just continue to carry Mexican style with my striker fired polymer wonder nine from a company that may or may not be SIG. Whats the difference between a $600 Sig and a $300 Taurus? That took a lot. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. Id read that for TMP, they got NASA to help in the design of the refit Enterprise. The Defiant regardless of who is the captain. Especially since they farm it out to the lowest bidder. They didnt have to, but did. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. By hoping Sig gets taken down for the P320, theyre actually setting up their own pet brand to be the next on the chopping block. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). So does any of this mean theres something wrong with the P320? Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ABC News ran two reports on the topic last week, highlighting one particular cop in Bridge City, Texas who is suing SIG for $15 million. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. I can say one thing for sure, the X on the side of the my is about is welcoming to me as grip zone was. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. But SIG Sauer said it has rectified the issue with upgrades, including one made for the U.S. military which court documents, filed as part of one of the lawsuits, show resulted in substantial changes to the weapons internal design. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. Get a dead trigger when the striker breaks. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. 2. I would rather play handball with the Devil himself because if you deal with the Devil he will tell you that you agreed to lose your soul for a big box full of millions in cash. My gun just went off! So even if, as the ambulance chaser claims, the striker leg could vibrate off of the sear face, it could not discharge unless the drop safety was also disengaged because the drop safety prevents movement of the striker sufficient to make the firing pin protrude from the breech face. The guide rod is cheap and breaks, it has rotten front sights! converted to the Glock denomination, but are now screaming that the P320 is Too new, not worked out! U.S. lawsuits Inside the gun, a metal piece called the sear should keep the weapon from firing until the trigger is pulled. JTF-2 is the only unit in. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. And I suspect at end of day this recent P320 one will be identified as a negligent discharge or from weapons from 2017 where owners failed to . On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? Is it? I didnt even touch it! All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. Not sure why it wont let me reply to you, but Ill reply to myself in the hope youll get it. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. This subject has two prongs; One is the negligence of those who have shot themselves with 320s through violations of Rule 2, the other the possible mechanical design failing of the gun. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday on behalf of . Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. Watching all these Glock fan boys drool over these lawsuits in their tribal brand-lust is like watching the talking heads on CNN announcing Trump lost the 2020 election. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. Glocks biggest problem is they havent innovated since 1985. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? Well I jumped in bed with ma and pa , told them that the devil was in Arkansas. Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. He points to it in the video. I know off body carry is a recipe for disaster. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. Being highly trained doesnt eliminate stupidity. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. They passed every state and national drop test requirement out there. Carrying a handgun in a purse, particularly one that isnt designed specifically to carry a firearm, is problematic at best. Happy with my old S&W revolvers, 3rd Gen S&W pistols,1911s and a slew of P226s. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? Would you? abprototype.com can add the manual safety as well as add the notches in the grip frame. In the case of the 320, lightning is striking the same place an awful lot. Sig can burn for all I care. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. Look a fanboy. NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. Again the Far Right Stupidity and hypocrisy is infinite. who sells them? It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. He said hes a gun owner and a concealed carry permit holder. Trigger is lighter than the Glock, it took years of aggressive training to reach the point of acceptable discharges with the Glock. Face it, you paid far too much for a plastic gun. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. . No picture for me. The same should hold true for the insane marketing of pistols like the totally unsafe Glock. The military has found that the pistol has a tendency to eject live rounds among other issues.
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